The conservative influencer and California governor expressed similar viewpoints on a variety of issues, though their opinions differed on the details.
California Governor Gavin Newsom hosted Steve Bannon, a conservative media personality and former adviser to President Donald Trump, on a March 12 episode of his newly launched “This is Gavin Newsom” podcast.
The two seasoned political operatives, with typically divergent perspectives, found common ground on a host of issues, including economic theories and bureaucratic power.
Bannon started the interview by revealing his plan to “unwind” Newsom from a “globalist” to a “populist.”
“This is part of the deprogramming, is it?” Newsom joked in response.
On the issue of tariffs, both suggested levies have a place in U.S. trade policy. Newsom said he prefers targeted tariffs, while Bannon suggested broad and sustained levies are the most effective.
The governor acknowledged that former President Joe Biden maintained levies enacted by Trump and tripled some tariffs.
“Democrats weren’t screaming and yelling about that,” Newsom said. “What’s fair is fair.”
They agreed that tariffs will cause some pain but are expected to increase the on-shoring of businesses and jobs, with Bannon suggesting red states with fewer regulations will see the most benefits.
Newsom said those same states could be disproportionately impacted by tariffs if higher prices materialize.
“With respect to tariff policy, it seems a little chaotic and the markets reflect that,” Newsom said.
Bannon outlined his view of challenges that originate with unelected government employees, an idea the California governor supported.
It’s a “clay layer of bureaucracy, unaccountable folks making a lot of decisions,” Newsom said.
How to handle the dilemma is a point of contention, with Bannon supporting Trump’s efforts set forth by the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) to quickly streamline the government, while Newsom suggested a slower approach is more prudent.
“There’s going to be some tears here,” Newsom said. “The transition is not overnight … and will come at real cost and consequence.”
Opinions on Musk
Though both have been critical of top adviser Elon Musk, Bannon expressed gratitude for the tech leader’s work with DOGE.
However, Newsom pushed back on Musk’s role in the government.
“There’s a recklessness to what he’s doing, unaccountable,” Newsom said.
His guest noted his mixed feelings on the matter.
“I’ve got a lot of problems with Elon, you know that, Elon knows that,” Bannon said, before highlighting his admiration for the work underway to reduce the nation’s debt.
The Republican media host likened the DOGE team to “shock troops” and “special forces” seeking contracts to eliminate, with a goal of erasing the federal deficit.
“I would like to see a little more definition about what they’ve found,” he said to Newsom’s approval.
The two agreed that ending waste, fraud, and abuse, is a lofty priority.
“Everyone is for that,” Newsom said.
One group likely to oppose such efforts are those profiting from a lack of oversight, Bannon suggested.
“Wall Street is not going to love it because they’re all neoliberal neocons,” he said. “They want to be invading everywhere, and they hate populism.”
Economic Populism
Bannon said the theory of economic populism, where policy decisions are made to benefit American citizens, is growing in popularity among all demographic groups and is espoused by some elected Democratic officials, including Sen. John Fetterman (D-N.Y.), Ro Khanna (D-Calif.), and former Rep. Sherrod Brown (D), among others.
“There are some very strong voices in the Democratic Party,” Bannon said. “I think they’re kind of on an island because it hasn’t been the center of conversation.”
The two also agreed on the importance of citizens participating in the democratic process.
“I appreciate the notion of agency, that we’re not bystanders in the world,” Newsom said. “It’s decisions, not conditions that determine our fate and future.”
Bringing back jobs through a carrot-and-stick approach to foreign trade policy is favorable, the governor said, because it’s a “worker-centered” prerogative.
Taxes and Budgets
Both agreed that taxes should be raised for the highest-income earners and that corporations should not receive tax cuts if the money is used for stock buybacks.
“They figured out how to game the system,” Bannon said.
Additionally, both want to see the elimination of a tax break for what’s called “carried interest” on investment funds that benefits investment managers.
“That’s my kind of DOGE,” Newsom said.
Calling the nation’s fiscal dilemma a symptom of overspending rather than a lack of revenue, Bannon called for dramatic cuts to federal spending, including to the U.S. Defense Department, Medicaid, and social programs, as the only solution to inflation problems.
“That’s going to lead to painful conversations,” he said. “It’s gotten so out of control, and it’s both parties. There are going to be huge fights.”
He noted the irony that Republicans passed a continuing resolution, better known as a CR, and that the budget includes Biden-Harris crafted allocations.
“We hate any CR. We’ve hated this one for a long time,” Bannon said. “It’s a bitter pill to swallow.”
The governor noted his surprise that Republicans pushed through the plan.
“Locking in the Biden era budget, or at least extending it … is the last thing I expected to see from … the [Make America Great Again] movement,” Newsom said.
Lowering energy costs are also shared priorities, though the two differ on how best to achieve the goal.
Another point where the two see eye-to-eye is the use of small modular reactors to power artificial intelligence operations and data centers.
“It has resuscitated the nuclear question, which is interesting,” Newsom said.
At one point in the podcast, Newsom appeared to give no reaction when Bannon confidently claimed the 2020 election was stolen.
Many speculate that the California governor is positioning himself for a White House run in 2028.
“Steve Bannon espouses hatred and anger, and even at some points violence, and I don’t think we should give him oxygen on any platform, ever, anywhere,” Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear said during a retreat for Democratic Party leaders on March 13.